Political Correctness

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Political Correctness

Postby NaranjaRa » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:10 pm

A bit of a side-debate in regards to the value of Political Correctness sprung out of the thread, Bill Maher referenced himself as a "house nigga" on his show

In essence, is the PC movement a valuable one, or a dangerous one?
What are the different forms it takes?
How has it affected our society?
And is it relegated to a single political side, or party (Liberals), or does it also take shape in other forms/parties as well (Conservatives)?
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Re: Political Correctness

Postby NaranjaRa » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:54 pm

NaranjaRa wrote:... i absolutely abhor the word "triggered" and things such as the concept of "safe spaces". there are elements of our society right now that are literally telling people that they need to be upset about this or that. people who have such an enormous reaction to things they end up creating and/or fueling outrage that would most likely not be there to such a degree. and i believe social media is one enormous reason why this over-sensitivity has flourished. it's just the newest form of crowd-think, where every - single - thing - anyone says anymore is not only on the world-stage, but it's there for each and every person to then comment on, and be offended by. this ridiculous level of scrutiny over the minutiae of each and every moment in turn elevates somewhat questionable, minor events and people to a level of hysteria that otherwise would have perhaps just raised some eyebrows and then quickly passed over.

Feydakin wrote:Hate Speech and all the jive has lost all meaning in today's ultra-PC SJW culture of the regressive Left. So it's really hard to even use those terms anymore. I also kind of feel the same way about the "N" word as I do about racism or race in general. Before Obama, I feel like racism was fading deeper and deeper into the background. Then for whatever reason (I firmly blame Postmodernism and their PC culture war for it) racism, sexism, and bigotry started coming back... sort of. It is all a construct of the "Progressives" and their aggressive PC culture that labeled everything as oppressive. Finally people are starting to wake up to it, but it was insidiously injected into our society for a couple of decades at least before people really started to take notice and push back. It's really set back race relations in particular in the US decades in some cases... and it was all just smoke and mirrors. Divide us and conquer us. Now it's like the oppression olympics. It's all about how many oppression points you can score, and non-stop virtue signalling. Guh it's so obvious and idiotic I can't stand that people actually fall for it. I could not give less of a shit who you are, live and let live... that was how most people lived back 10-15 years ago, now everyone wants big government and to be all up in each others business? Fuck that... Fuck Marxism, Fuck Postmodernism, Fuck Socialism (Venezuela, there you go). anyways. Fuck it all. :roll:

NaranjaRa wrote:ugh. "left" this. "progressive" that. it's NOT just a one-sided issue you can stare at from behind partisan blinders, Feyd. conservatives have their own form of "political correctness" as well.

the issue that i see us essentially agreeing on here is the overall promotion of excessive self-victimization.

Feydakin wrote:Words are important, words have meaning. Using the proper words to describe what you're talking about is crucial. Comparing the insanity that the Postmodern Left is demonstrating right now with ANYTHING negative the Right is doing is not even a comparison that can be made... I'm not talking about confused, mostly classic Liberals that just aren't aware of what's really going on with their party right now, I'm talking about the radicals that are leading their party into oblivion and this country into civil war.

"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."

Postmodernists (Social Marxists) have co-opted Liberalism to insinuate their way of life into America. They basically just replaced the wealth classes with minority oppression classes (hence the "oppression olympics"). People are waking up to that and are ready to stop it. All it's going to take is the wrong person being seriously hurt or killed in one of these rallies or riots and that spark will light the powderkeg, and we're off to the races. I don't know if anyone's been watching what's going on out there on the ground, but tensions are running very high, and it keeps escalating. It's a lot more serious than just playing politics, and it's going to get much worse than the civil rights movement.
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Re: Political Correctness

Postby NaranjaRa » Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:56 pm

Feydakin wrote:Comparing the insanity that the Postmodern Left is demonstrating right now with ANYTHING negative the Right is doing is not even a comparison that can be made...

again, you believe this because of political alignment and opposition of the beliefs that the other side is promoting.

but i'm not aligned. i see the problem on both sides, so i really just have to call bullshit on this idea. BOTH sides of the spectrum, Liberals AND Conservatives have BATSHIT extremists promoting agendas that spell immense trouble for the rest of the nation. more specifics on this below...

Feydakin wrote:I'm not talking about confused, mostly classic Liberals that just aren't aware of what's really going on with their party right now, I'm talking about the radicals that are leading their party into oblivion and this country into civil war.

i agree there is a culture war going on, but it's also been going on for a long time now. actually, statistically and historically, it's people aligned to the radical RIGHT factions, clinging to conspiracy theories, living in remote cabins with stockpiles of weapons just waiting for the opportunity to use them in some type of upcoming "civil war"....some of them actually WANTING it to happen.

my own father used to be one of them. /62

Feydakin wrote:Postmodernists (Social Marxists) have co-opted Liberalism to insinuate their way of life into America. They basically just replaced the wealth classes with minority oppression classes (hence the "oppression olympics"). People are waking up to that and are ready to stop it. All it's going to take is the wrong person being seriously hurt or killed in one of these rallies or riots and that spark will light the powderkeg, and we're off to the races. I don't know if anyone's been watching what's going on out there on the ground, but tensions are running very high, and it keeps escalating. It's a lot more serious than just playing politics, and it's going to get much worse than the civil rights movement.

and Conservatives aren't trying to insinuate THEIR way of life on America? COME ON. there are TWO extreme positions, not just ONE, trying to force their ideologies on the whole of the nation.

let's elaborate...

right now, the Religious Right is attempting to scribe their theological dogma into the very fabric of our country by making their own laws & policies, ignoring the foundation of this country's Constitution that they claim is so crucial; ignoring the importance of separation of church & state. they literally do not believe in this concept of separation or why it is important.

they want to try to force creationism to be taught in schools. they want to control women's bodies & healthcare options. and historically, it's really only been Conservatives who try to censor & ban certain books, films, & art

the Right's form of political correctness comes at us through this forced hyper-nationalism & patriotism, where you dare don't speak ill against the president, the flag, or the military. they get super offended & that ultra sensitivity goes the other way. consider the idea of "freedom fries", the hatred when someone puts "happy holidays" on a fucking coffee cup, or the overall claims of some imagined "war on Christianity".

however, the worst problem is the formation of actual policy. right now, there aren't laws (that i'm aware of?) forcing people to say, use gender-neutral pronouns or anything else along the lines of PC speech.

but there ARE laws right now, and more being drawn up, that regulate women's bodies because of the Religious Right's viewpoints, putting women in sometimes downright dangerous situations. Texas is the most pertinent example in how they've been able to basically force women's clinics that offer abortions out of business through slippery lawmaking. so don't even try to say what the left is doing on college campuses is somehow far worse than the right's efforts to manipulate policy and create harmful situations.

furthermore, do i even need to get into the fact that only one side (Conservatives) hold closely an insane denial of scientific fact and climate change, which is going to hurt the ENTIRE PLANET? /atf


on a side note: i'm currently watching The Handmaid's Tale right now, which takes place in a dystopian future where religious fundamentalist zealots won a civil war and forced the population into a horrible, rigid way of life wth no freedom of speech, action, or even thought.
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Re: Political Correctness

Postby Feydakin » Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:57 pm

America is a Constitutional Republic. Trying to change that fundamentally, say by promoting Socialism in any form is a direct attack on the American way of life in my estimation.

You're talking about fundamentalists. This tiny group of people have never even come close to bringing their beliefs into the law of the land, and for good reason. The beliefs of that tiny portion of the Right isn't even close to what is permeating the culture from the fundamentalist Left right now. From the educational system to social media and big entertainment media, it's everywhere, pervasive and downright sinister.

NaranjaRa wrote:and Conservatives aren't trying to insinuate THEIR way of life on America?

Except America was founded on those ideals... as I said, it's a Constitutional Republic. What today's Left wants, especially the young, is a Socialist nanny state. That is something that I will always rail against.

NaranjaRa wrote:they want to try to force creationism to be taught in schools. they want to control women's bodies & healthcare options. and historically, it's really only been Conservatives who try to censor & ban certain books, films, & art.

Again, a tiny, fundamentalist portion of the actual Right. I think that people vastly overestimate how much of the country actually wants these things and vastly underestimate how much of the establishment (politics and nearly all media) now is firmly "Progressive Left".

Very few people believe in the young Earth theory or literal Creationism so it's not even worth mentioning. A tiny fringe wants it taught, but it doesn't get taught and will NEVER happen in public schools.

I watch a TON of political commentary from both sides. As for the Right leaning folks, not a single one of them wants to ban abortion completely. They simply and rightly do not want their tax dollars going towards subsidizing what they literally consider to be murdering babies. Anyone should easily be able to put themselves in those shoes and understand that. It's not a hard ask, just don't expect tax money if you provide abortion services. There are tons of other ways for these services to be funded that don't include taxpayer dollars. Free and unrestricted abortion is literally the only "women's healthcare" issue that is in any kind of jeopardy at all. The vast majority of them still believe abortion is murder and many of them don't believe in BC either, but the difference is that nearly all of them know that enforcing their beliefs upon others via legislation is wrong. Compromise to some degree is the way forward.

Very few people, and none that I've seen actually denies that "Climate Change" is a real thing, or even that Mankind is responsible for it to some degree. We know that climate change happens naturally on a scale that we cannot really fathom as humans. The real question that the Right has regarding climate change is; How much Mankind contributes to it and whether or not it's as catastrophic as some people claim. The science one that front IS NOT settled regardless of the propaganda.

As to the Handmaiden's Tale, that show is quite literally Progressive Leftist propaganda... why do you think shit like that even gets made in today's cultural climate? Yes it's "relevant" if people believe all the other bullshit that they want you to believe...

Also, comparing actual political correctness to things like national pride, and everything listed is ludicrous. I'm tired as fuck of people trying to make me to feel bad for having national pride, respecting LEOs and military, etc. There's nothing at all wrong with it and I'm sick of hearing the implication that there is.

If you really want to know what to think of political correctness, postmodernism and such everyone really should take a look at Dr Jordan Peterson's video lectures. The man has made it his lifes work to study these topics from a psychiatric perspective. He's a brilliant educator.



https://www.youtube.com/user/JordanPete ... orrectness
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Re: Political Correctness

Postby NaranjaRa » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:14 am

i know you want to minimize the role that fundamentalists on the Right are playing / want to play in shaping the nation. as they say, "that's cool, bro"...
just, you know...they're only the ones mostly in power right now in every state. but whatevs...it's pretty useless to go back and forth on this, just the two of us.

Feydakin wrote:Also, comparing actual political correctness to things like national pride, and everything listed is ludicrous. I'm tired as fuck of people trying to make me to feel bad for having national pride, respecting LEOs and military, etc. There's nothing at all wrong with it and I'm sick of hearing the implication that there is.

see, you're doing it right there. read what i said again. was i saying there was as problem with national pride or pride in the military??? watch that over-sensitivity. the problem is that people freak out IF something negative is said. the problem is BLIND nationalism, BLIND allegiance to a president, BLIND acceptance of everything military. that's how Nazis happen. like statements i constantly hear, such as, "well he's our President so we must support him!" that kind of shit actually goes against our very duty as citizens to question everything and serve as the final 'checks & balances' on a corrupt government and the actions it takes!

in regards to the climate change debate, the latest POTUS has not only made the US one of the only 3 nations to NOT support the Paris Accord (it's pretty bad when even isolationist N.Korea signed, but not us!), and is currently undoing protections that 'oh-so-evil-Socialist' Obama put into place so all those poor, struggling businessmen can earn more money now that they don't need to spend a little extra in their corporations to help protect the air or water. farmers are literally dying from the chemicals now once again allowed to be used on the land, but oh well! this is not a debate over the (overwhelming amount of) science out there, the debate is simply whether people believe it. either way, it just kind of makes sense to me, when it comes to the health of our children and the future of the planet & all, to err on the side of caution. but nope...it's all part of some whacky Liberal agenda!

Handmaiden's Tale = leftist propaganda, huh. //facepalm

propaganda and political correctness flows both ways, but being aligned to one of them makes it harder to recognize and admit to no matter how much of "both sides" you claim to hear. especially when one side has tons and tons of money flowing behind them and has been steadily convincing (racist/homophobic/xenophobic/militant-right) people that all their worst nightmares are on their way to coming true in their efforts to keep pulling more wealth and resources towards the top while the rest of the citizens bicker over the little shit and continue to vote against their own true interests.

got this from someone's comment on a book on Amazon and it wonderfully states what i'm getting at:

...a detailed examination of primarily Republican Party manipulation of political messaging to gain control of the government to enrich the 1%. In the process, they changed dominant social thinking from a belief in a government that cared for the whole population into one that blames individuals for their social circumstances and seeks to pull the rug out from under the "undeserving". Their message has been effective, synergistic with the rise of the "me" generation. Our 45th president is the successful culmination of this political realignment. Far from being an outsider, Drumpf is the dream of Republican financial elites. As an unwitting tool, he has come to plunder the middle and working classes for maximum loot for himself while dragging into government a gang of pirates to do the same. They have cast minorities as the enemy, blinding supporters to the commonality of their plight as fellow victims of the super rich.

that last sentence is especially important here.

look, this country is never going to become a Socialist paradise, just like it's never going to submit to Sharia law, or even become 'The Handmaiden's Tale'. but keep fighting the good fight i guess....




PS - u know i still love you, even when we give each other a hard time like this...
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Re: Political Correctness

Postby NaranjaRa » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:37 am

also, Jordan Peterson is far from an objective perspective, no matter what or how many degrees he might hold. there's a reason why the far-right/alt-right (though i gag on that term) loves him...

THAT SAID, i did agree with this article:
I’m a left-winger and I support Jordan Peterson
(note to the rest of the folks...this is speaking from what's been going on in Canada.)

If Peterson wanted to resist from the left instead of the libertarian right, he could argue — and he’d be damn correct — that he’s taking a stand against an arrogant, repressive ruling class. He could argue that legally mandatory “preferred pronouns” have not only the bloody-toothed Leviathan of government on their side, but also the liberal media and even the corporate world, which has increasingly made diversity and equality its brand.

The neoliberal state, which is my radical leftist language to describe the combo of all those forces, speaks only in terms of individuals and their interests. In Peterson’s case, as always, that ideology is bubble-wrapped in emotional talk of individuals’ trauma and “harm.” Yes, of course “harm” is bad: if a law weren’t in question, the decent thing would be for Peterson to call his students what they want to be called. But those aren’t the stakes. And anyone worried about not just our individual but also our collective good, about the health of our democracy, will defend Peterson’s revolt — leftists included.

but i still don't buy the notion that we have this giant "liberal-biased media" in THIS country, i see a ton of info/propaganda that is pushed from the right-leaning perspective as well...and stuff that is not mentioned, that would definitely be front & center IF this bias truly existed in the strong-armed manner people claim.
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Re: Political Correctness

Postby Skywalker » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:30 am

Wait the Handmaid's Tale is left propaganda? Na, I see it as more of a call and a good call of what could happen if we allow one group to gain too much power in either direction. There once was a time when there was some good cross-talk politics went down. I do think that is now past.

On the note of the Handmaid's Tale, it does show one thing. That is the direct relation of women's bodies no longer being owned by the person but by the state. This has happened before. Many women see it as a way to call out laws that they find unjust, such as the defunding of Planned Parenthood, the most recent one that was passed that allows women to be fired for taking birth control! Just the other day I had someone who lives in the same small ass town that I graduated high school from, tell me that I should be less of a whore and then I would not need birth control. Somehow birth control is only needed by whores according to him. I just stopped commenting after that.


[At this point, not sure where to put this part of my reply.. but I'm going to leave it ]


This was a post about political correctness in which the first post is about the Bill guy and the n-word. In a recent episode of United Shades of America, the host a black guy went into the hills of Kentucky to talk to miners. Many of them were nice, in fact, all of them were nice. The one thing that he did not do was use the word hillbilly, instead, he called it the H-word. The man he was talking with stated that he was not a fan of the n-word, and did not say it because it was not his word. He used the word hillbilly. The host said that he was not going to use the h-word as he called it because he saw it as an insult (this is a general overview of it, as I have only seen this episode once). The same way that I think many blacks in the United States see it. It is the closest that I can get to an understanding since I am not black. I understand the racial, the economical, and the educational indication of the word Hillbilly. I am sure that when the n-word is used as a bad word by anyone no matter of color, then the feelings are damn near the same.

So no, Bill should not have used the word. Even in jest or even to make a point. He had a whole lot of another vocabulary that he could have pulled from. This not about being politically correct, this is about being culturally sensitive. Something that he failed on. Many in the U.S. still fail on, but I doubt that it will ever be perfect. That does not mean that we can not call out when such things happen and then work to correct them.

---------------

I think that a lot of times people scream PC when in reality it is a cultural issue. There needs to be a deeper cultural understanding of those around us. That is not happening. While many may think that my call for Universal Healthcare is wrong and goes against what is America. The first answer should not be your wrong and here is why. It should be why, why do you want Universal Healthcare? The same works the other way, I would want to know their views. I hope that it goes deeper than, I do not want to be pickpocketed for your healthcare (which is what someone said to me about the subject, then went on some long rant about Obama and how he single handily destroyed the country). Which I normally reply with, well I think the DOD got their first (in terms of pickpocketing for taxes for government projects). I just walked away from this one, as he was a die hard Drumpf supporter. I was unAmerican for not supporting Drumpf and the current adminsitaton. I also needed to be reeducated because I went to a liberal university.

I am not about to blindly follow a President. While I voted for Obama, that does not mean that the White House did not get phone calls or letters sent about his polcies. The current President, I am scared to even send a letter because my name may be put on a list. What kind of country is that to live in??
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Re: Political Correctness

Postby NaranjaRa » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:02 pm

it's a flat-out Cultural WAR Sky. the Right keeps people in FEAR of The Other. that's what it stems from. the bubble is thick. here is a great article that touches on the entire fallacy of "the Liberal-leaning media" and covers a lot of this mess all in one:
https://theprogressivecynic.com/2014/09 ... edia-myth/

Right wing politicians, activists, and media personalities have long propagated the myth that the media has an entrenched pro-left political bias that colors all of its reporting. They blame this perceived bias for unfavorable reporting and even losses by right wing politicians.

The right wing’s claims of bias usually follow one of a few [il]logical paths of reasoning. First, they argue that major media outlets are bought and run by left wing activists like George Soros, thus have an institutional bias that only allows the coverage of pro-left stories. Second, they assert that reporters themselves are indoctrinated as left-wing shills, thus are slanting their reporting. Third, they argue that a culture of “political correctness” makes media figures too scared to tell the truth on certain issues (ex. terrorism), thus forcing them to toe the “liberal” line in order to avoid being tarred as racists.

Here are a few examples of such claims of bias from recent years:

“Many in the media are inclined to do the president’s bidding and I know that’s an uphill battle [referencing a left wing conspiracy] we fight with the media generally,” — Mitt Romney, GOP presidential candidate, 2012

“As I type, the left wing media is orchestrating a hit job on Ken Buck in Colorado.” — Erik Erikson, editor of RedState, 2014

Put simply, the assertion that the media is leftist or liberal is not only false, but an engineered tactic to trick the American people.

In recent years, the right wing has completely given up on reality and has base its entire policy platform on non-factual ideological dogma. They have become a party that rejects science in favor of religion, and that bases its entire economic platform on the discredited economic ideal of “trickle down economics.” Their foreign policy is based around perpetual war, where cost is no issue, while they are perfectly content letting the American infrastructure crumble because they argue that the cost of rebuilding is too high. They believe that business can regulate itself, while women’s health clinics must be regulated out of existence.

Because they know that their policies aren’t based in fact, the right wing elite must use smart rhetoric and tactics to deflect fact-checking. By preemptively calling the media liberal and predicting that they will criticize the right wing position, conservatives are able to assert irrational things or propose extreme policies, then label objective criticisms of their ideas as liberal smears. They plant the seed of “liberal bias” early and often so that they can dismiss fact-checking of their claims as partisanship rather than reality.

This preemptive attack is analogous to a person who plans on lying during a debate accusing the neutral fact-checker of being their enemy a couple days before the debate—they know that they are going to lie and will be called out, thus they use the accusation of bias to discredit the person who is likely to debunk them.

In an ideal situation, the media acts as the objective fact-checker which ensures that all political and ideological groups live within reality. If one political ideology decides to completely discard its connection to reality while the other does not, then it isn’t biased for the media to disproportionately attack the party of non-factualism.

In addition to the propaganda purposes of the liberal media accusation, there is also a very important business component. Over the last few decades, a right wing media bubble has formed that acts as an echo chamber for extreme conservatives to make their voices heard. Groups like the Drudge Report, Breitbart, Red State, the Daily Caller, and Fox News are major players in this bubble, but there are also innumerable smaller blogs and news sites who cross-post each others’ articles and cross-cite each others’ sources (ex. a blog makes up a story and is cited as a source by a larger news outlet, which is used a source for even more blogs and outlets—eventually, nobody knows who started the rumor, but everybody is talking about it as true because it is posted on so many sites).

In order for the right wing media bubble to function, people cannot be allowed out of it and into the real world. The second they realize that the right wing mediaverse is just an echo chamber for propaganda, they will no longer pay to be a part of it. As such, the right wing media bubble propagates the idea that they are the only “neutral” media outlets (the king of these claims is the “fair and balanced” assertion of Fox News) and that the other media outlets are all liars.

Once indoctrinated to stay within the right wing bubble, viewers are profitized via advertising and the sale of ideological products (ex. the Dinesh D’Souza book series). This industry is very profitable, thus is highly motivated to perpetuate the lie of the liberal media and retain their captive audience.
Real Media Biases

Unfortunately, while the liberal media bias is false, the corporate media does suffer from a series of biases and conflicts that make its coverage less than ideal. Here is a short summary of each such form of bias:

Pro-Corporate Bias – The mainstream media is composed of corporations which exist to make a profit, not spread accurate information. The corporate state of the media creates a conflict of interest where advertisers are concerned (ex. a news outlet that runs BP ads hesitates to cover their oil spills in the negative light that they deserve), as well as a conflict of interest when covering the spread of corporatism in the United States (ex. they want their taxes to remain low and to avoid new regulation).

Sensationalism Bias – Sensational stories tend to lead, even when they are far less important that truly substantive stories. This is because the corporate media lives on ratings, and stories that draw attention make them more money than stories that are less popular, but more substantive. Probably the ultimate example of this was CNN’s absurd focus on the missing Malaysian airliner that crowded out virtually every other story for several weeks, including the brewing Ukraine crisis.

False-Equivalence Bias – When dealing with opposing establishment groups (ex. the Democrats and Republicans), the corporate media often draws false-equivalences to avoid alienating either side. They simply report what both sides say about an issue, while not addressing the validity of either side’s argument. This type of bias is extremely toxic and causes people to become misinformed on many issues. Probably the largest example of a false-equivalence bias in modern media is the coverage of climate change—a host will have a scientist on to debate with a right wing politician who rejects climate change, and will let the viewer leave the discussion without understanding that 97% of climate scientists agree that climate change is real and anthropogenic.

Establishment Bias – The modern corporate media has gotten into bed with the political establishments of both parties and there is a great deal of overlap between the two groups. Political players and activists regularly move to the media as hosts (ex. Huckabee) or “experts” in some field of government. This closeness between the media and political establishments makes it less likely for the media to attack the status quo—they have personal entanglements with those in the political establishment and are hesitant to burn those bridges. If some media figure disregards this “courtesy,” they will lose their access and will likely be replaced with somebody who is willing to play ball.

Fox and MSNBC Biases – Fox and MSNBC are both networks with entrenched biases towards the Republicans and Democrats, respectively. Both outlets have hosts who support their party and who report the news in a way that tends to favor one side. That said, Fox makes up nonsense out of whole cloth, while MSNBC merely cherry-picks its stories to favor the Democrats—in this, Fox is pure propaganda, while MSNBC is more opinionated analysis. In general, it is best to take anything you hear on MSNBC with a grain of salt, and only after fact-checking it (except for “All In” with Chris Hayes, which is one of the most fair political shows I have seen), while reflexively disregarding anything heard on Fox unless it is confirmed by neutral sources (and even then the story is likely presented in a disingenuous manner).


so overall, there's a reason for it.

MONEY. once again....money. /atf

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