Trigger warning: Sexual assault; Stanford victim's letter

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Postby cerrodepedro » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:34 am

I did a search in the forums for "Stanford" and did not see this come up. It should have come up. Let's talk about this, people. As many may be aware, a judge recently sentenced a man to 6 months of county jail after being convicted of raping a woman. They both attended Stanford University. The judge also attended Stanford. The reasons were basically that the 20-year-old would have less professional and social opportunities if they gave him a heavier sentence. Humanity, especially entitled, rich, white, male humanity, is SHIT. No quantity of cute little videos of people who fit the description of the rapist doing generous and kind things is going to change that point of view.

The most appropriate way I can think to source this is to link to the article in which the victim is reported as addressing the perpetrator directly in court. An audio version of the letter automatically loads here.

The father referred to the rapist's crime as "20 minutes of action." That ENRAGES ME. DEATH to those who support rape culture. God, we're disgusting. I don't know if this speaks more to a culture of violent decadence present in more powerful and wealthy societies, or to the fact that cultures that support and allow and condone rape flourish in humanity in general.

So I believe there is a way we can improve. I believe combating rape culture is something that should happen at all fronts. Parents should teach their children that their body is their own, and no one is entitled to it, and that when someone says "no," you listen to them, IMMEDIATELY. Educators and others in positions of authority should teach that potential victims of rape are NOT responsible for its prevention. It is NEVER their fault. The concept of consent should be drilled into our heads in all aspects of interpersonal life.

We should teach people that sure, self defense is great, but if that's where most of the focus is, aren't we just saying that it's okay for the rapist to find another, less capable person to assault? We should be focusing on the fact that their own homes and their own schools are the most dangerous places for women to be.
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Postby cerrodepedro » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:59 am

Re: Teaching your kid about bodily autonomy and consent: Survivor Mom: Teaching Consent.

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And No, My Child Does Not Have to Hug You: Why I’m Raising my Toddler to Understand Consent

There's another point of view: The parent of a boy. Sometimes when children play, they make lots of physical contact. One day when my boy was playing with another four-year-old, she asked him to stop, and when he didn't immediately stop, I interceded and pulled him away. The father (there are reasons aside from general rape culture why I think this was not that unexpected) told his very shy and timid daughter to not be so sensitive and that "it's okay, it's no big deal." Another parent of another four-year-old who was also present, a parent who had been raped as well, was as or more disturbed by this as me. This was confirmed when she wrote a vague social networking status asking her fellow friends to not do this in front of her son.

This isn't nitpicking. This isn't thought control. This isn't oversensitivity or mollycoddling. This is survivors of sexual assault, and those who are regularly threatened by it, standing up and saying that it needs to stop.
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Postby Philly » Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:06 pm

This story sickens me.
I don't know how to post links but if you look for it, you can find a petition to recall the judge. In fact, it might be on the ninja fb page. It won't fix this error in his judgment but it will hopefully keep him from making more errors
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Postby ImmaculateStiletto » Tue Jun 07, 2016 3:50 pm

This enrages me so much. As some one who has been a victim of sexual assault it brings up so many emotions. I am tired of the he is a good kid lines or lines equivalent to it. Attention... Your dirtbag son is not a good kid. He is a predator that forced himself on a young woman. He had irrevocably changed this woman's life forever. She may push it in the back of her mind down the road but something will always trigger it to come back up and make hwr question herself over and over again about that horrendous event. Make her think about all the things she could have possibly done to have changed the events. I feel like women are just not supported enough and this rape culture we live in is getting bigger and bolder because there is always some one to say oh he's a good boy, or the try and minimize what has been done. I hurt for her because I know the internal pain that she will forever go through. And not only that but it is All over the media so she is always reminded of it. This world has truly lost its sense of humanity.
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Postby BriarRose » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:31 pm

@cerrodepedro: I was just going to post on this...glad you beat me to it. This whole fiasco (ie miscarriage of justice) enrages me, but the part that really makes me want to curl up into a ball and cry (or punch a wall...I vacillate between the two) is this part of the statement that the rapist's (he doesn't deserve to be referred to by name) father made: "[The rapist] can do so many positive things as a contributor to society and is totally committed to educating other college age students about the dangers of alcohol consumption and sexual promiscuity. By having people like [the rapist] educate others on college campuses is how society can begin to break the cycle of binge drinking and its unfortunate results."

You take out his name and the statement becomes even more ridiculous, callous and offensive. Society doesn't need educators like the rapist and his father.
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Postby Corgimom » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:56 pm

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Postby Feydakin » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:23 am

Men like the rapist and his father need to be removed from the gene pool...

https://www.facebook.com/MicMedia/videos/686071594865344/
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Postby BriarRose » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:52 am

Philly wrote:This story sickens me.
I don't know how to post links but if you look for it, you can find a petition to recall the judge. In fact, it might be on the ninja fb page. It won't fix this error in his judgment but it will hopefully keep him from making more errors


Here's the petition for any Ninjas who are inclined to sign: Remove Judge Persky
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Postby Philly » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:47 am

BriarRose wrote:
Philly wrote:This story sickens me.
I don't know how to post links but if you look for it, you can find a petition to recall the judge. In fact, it might be on the ninja fb page. It won't fix this error in his judgment but it will hopefully keep him from making more errors


Here's the petition for any Ninjas who are inclined to sign: Remove Judge Persky

Thanks briarrose
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Postby ImmaculateStiletto » Wed Jun 08, 2016 9:17 am

BriarRose wrote:
Philly wrote:This story sickens me.
I don't know how to post links but if you look for it, you can find a petition to recall the judge. In fact, it might be on the ninja fb page. It won't fix this error in his judgment but it will hopefully keep him from making more errors


Here's the petition for any Ninjas who are inclined to sign: Remove Judge Persky


Thank you so much for posting this. When I first heard about everything I thought yeah I'm mad at this piece of shit but I'm even more mad that a person who was given the job to provide justice did not do so. I sure will be signing.
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Postby Feydakin » Wed Jun 08, 2016 3:48 pm

An open letter to Brock's father, one father to another;

http://johnpavlovitz.com/2016/06/06/to-brock-turners-father-from-another-father/

"Dear Mr. Turner,

I’ve read your letter to the judge on behalf of your son Brock, asking for leniency in his rape conviction.

I need you to understand something, and I say this as a father who dearly loves my son as much as you must love yours:

Brock is not the victim here.
His victim is the victim.
She is the wounded one.
He is the damager.


If his life has been “deeply altered” it is because he has horribly altered another human being; because he made a reprehensible choice to take advantage of someone for his own pleasure. This young woman will be dealing with this for far longer than the embarrassingly short six months your son is being penalized. She will endure the unthinkable trauma of his “20 minutes of action” for the duration of her lifetime, and the fact that you seem unaware of this fact is exactly why we have a problem.

This is why young men continue to rape women.
This is why so many men believe that they can do whatever they please to a woman’s body without accountability.
This is the reason so many victims of sexual assault never step forward.
This is why white privilege is real and insidious and usually those with it are oblivious to it.


I understand you trying to humanize your son in your letter; talking to the judge about his favorite snacks and swim practice and about the memories that are sweet for you as his father—but to be honest I don’t give a damn and if his victim was your daughter I’m quite sure you wouldn’t either.

I imagine this young woman had favorite snacks and sports too, and parents who had wonderful plans for her that didn’t include this nightmare.

There is no scenario where your son should be the sympathetic figure here. He is the assailant. He is the rapist. I can’t imagine as a father how gut wrenching such a reality is for you, but it is still true.

Brock has to register as a sex offender because he sexually assaulted an incapacitated young woman. This is why we have such requirements; because one vile act against another human being is one too many, because we don’t get a do-over when we do unspeakable things, because people need to be protected with knowledge of others in their midst who have failed so egregiously at respecting another person’s basic dignity.

The idea that your son has never violated another woman next to a dumpster before isn’t a credit to his character. We don’t get kudos for only raping one person in our lifetime. I don’t believe your son is a monster but he acted like one and that needs to be accounted for. To be sure, this decision is not the sum total of Brock’s life, but it is an important part of the equation and it matters deeply.

And to be clear, Mr. Turner,”alcohol and sexual promiscuity” are not the story here. The story here, is that young men have choices to make and these choices define them, even if those choices are made when temptation is great and opportunity is abundant. In fact, our humanity is most expressed when faced with such things, we choose integrity and decency; when we abstain from doing what is easy but wrong.

We as parents don’t control our children. Most parents understand this. Despite our best efforts to the contrary, they fail and fall and do things we’d never consent to. I certainly hope this is such an occasion, though it is not coming across that way in your letter. It feels like you want more sympathy and goodwill toward your son than you want for the survivor of his crime, and that’s simply not good enough for her or for those young men and women watching.

Here is her story.

You love your son and you should. But love him enough to teach him to own the terrible decisions he’s made, to pay the debt to society as prescribed, and then to find a redemptive path to walk, doing the great work in the world that you say he will.

For now though, as one father to another: help us teach our children to do better—by letting them see us do better."
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Postby Gwenno » Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:11 pm

19 years ago in the Netherlands I was a victim of rape and assault, asshole 1 didn't get any punishment because of an error in the chain of evidence, I only learned that when in court for the case against asshole 2. Asshole 2 turned out to be a repeat offender. My friend and I happened to be the first that went to the police to formally declare rape. After us came forth 6!!!!! others who also went formal. So he had 8 cases against him, what did he get? 6 months with TBS (forced incorperation to a psychologist)

It saddens me that in almost 20 years, nothing has changed yet.
I teach my son that no means no, and tell other kids that no means no. I challenge other parents on a weekly base. Because boys will be boys is unacceptable. Violence is never the answer. Respect each other, help each other. I try to do the best I can, I try to raise him right. I hope it works.
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Postby cerrodepedro » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:20 pm

Gwenno wrote:19 years ago in the Netherlands I was a victim of rape and assault, asshole 1 didn't get any punishment because of an error in the chain of evidence, I only learned that when in court for the case against asshole 2. Asshole 2 turned out to be a repeat offender. My friend and I happened to be the first that went to the police to formally declare rape. After us came forth 6!!!!! others who also went formal. So he had 8 cases against him, what did he get? 6 months with TBS (forced incorperation to a psychologist)

It saddens me that in almost 20 years, nothing has changed yet.


Thank you for sharing here. I understand how that can require a lot of energy. I cannot fucking deal with how ambivalent everyone seems to be at institutional levels about the plight of survivors and potential victims of rape. They're more willing to stick with a status quo that they're actually comfortable with (apparently people are comfortable with rape continuing to be probable for so many women) than doing something meaningful to make it stop.

Gwenno wrote:I teach my son that no means no, and tell other kids that no means no. I challenge other parents on a weekly base. Because boys will be boys is unacceptable. Violence is never the answer. Respect each other, help each other. I try to do the best I can, I try to raise him right. I hope it works.


Solidarity. I am doing the same, and encouraging every parent I know to do the same.
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Postby AliceElite » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:18 am

Cerro, thank you for this.

I was so, so afraid to come in here. This has been really triggering, really exhausting, and really enraging.

I was raped and there's no way any justice will ever be done for me. Justice could have been done for her. It should have.

and it wasn't.

She's in my thoughts, as are all my siblings who have been sexually assaulted. <3
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Postby BriarRose » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:11 pm

Juror speaks out against lenient judgement; just adding another dimension to the discussion: http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/06/brock-turner-juror-pens-angry-letter-to-judge.html
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Postby cerrodepedro » Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:15 pm

Yesterday something really horrible happened to the child of a close friend. I'm seething with anger and realizing there's a good chance the perp is going to be treated with some leniency. A crisis center friend told me they ought to involve a victim's advocate. I am so tired of such a huge portion of humanity feeling relatively free to violate the autonomy of people in the most fundamental of ways.
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Re:

Postby Orea » Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:14 pm

cerrodepedro wrote: Humanity, especially entitled, rich, white, male humanity, is SHIT.

[...]

The father referred to the rapist's crime as "20 minutes of action." That ENRAGES ME. DEATH to those who support rape culture. God, we're disgusting. I don't know if this speaks more to a culture of violent decadence present in more powerful and wealthy societies, or to the fact that cultures that support and allow and condone rape flourish in humanity in general.

[...]

We should teach people that sure, self defense is great, but if that's where most of the focus is, aren't we just saying that it's okay for the rapist to find another, less capable person to assault? We should be focusing on the fact that their own homes and their own schools are the most dangerous places for women to be.


The whole judicial system is a joke, in the US or in Europe. Serge Dassault, a French senator and owner of the Dassault company (building planes and bombs, mostly), was proven guilty of stealing 31 millions euros the other day. He got sentenced to two years "avec sursis" which means he will only do actual jail time if he commits another offence (and obviously, if he gets caught doing it). Meanwhile, he can remain a senator, and he can run for elections again. The beauty of the fucking system, hello !

And about the rape culture thing, I have something more to add. In France, I don't feel safe. When I'm out in the street, let's say to go to my place to the center of the city, it takes me roughly 40 minutes. There is not one day, NOT ONE DAY, where a man, or several men, are not going to harass me. It might be the whistling, it might be a fucking insult, it might be a fucking hand on my ass, but it's always fucking something.

I got assaulted several times, guys wanting me to touch them when I did not want to or just wanting to fuck with me because I was a woman and therefore, weak. I have taken to carrying a knife, or at least something to defend myself. Here on the Greek island where I'm from, sometimes I take out my knife and play with it. You should have seen people's faces when I did that. "Why in the hell do you have that? Why do you have a knife"? So I told them: I don't feel safe. I want to have something on me, just in case. And that shocked them. There are no sexual assaults here. Tight community, everyone knows everything. If a man acts inaproppriately towards a woman, the next day everyone is going to know about it. And the same day, the offender will be dead. Like, literally, fucking dead, that shit doesn't fly here.

It might look a bit too much like the law of the jungle or something... But man, somehow, it feels fucking wonderful to walk down the street, and not feel scared. I never had that before.
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Re: Trigger warning: Sexual assault; Stanford victim's letter

Postby cerrodepedro » Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:52 pm

I know it's mainstream Western liberalism that generally opposes the death penalty given that its employment is disproportionately used against very often innocent people of color, BUT in the cases where this has been addressed (HUGE "but"), I honestly don't know what else there is to be done for people who are okay violating individual autonomy to that degree. I don't see a person meriting a second chance to associate freely in society after that. Prison just seems pointless, not to mention a horrible institution to prop up generally. From a utilitarian point of view I can't really see any other way around it besides what you describe.
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Re: Trigger warning: Sexual assault; Stanford victim's letter

Postby Feydakin » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:23 pm

As much as I agree that the death penalty might be appropriate for the worst offenders (I don't think it can be "rehabilitated" out of the worst of them), they can't even give proper sentences to the vast majority of rapists, so I sincerely doubt anyone in power would even entertain the notion of adding the death penalty to the table. I've always maintained that the effects of that level of sexual assault are much worse and last much longer, usually the victims entire life, that much harsher penalties up to and including death are very appropriate... I'm talking about the more serious offenders here, serial rapist and child molesters.
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Re: Trigger warning: Sexual assault; Stanford victim's letter

Postby AliceElite » Tue Oct 11, 2016 1:21 pm

I'm 100% okay with vigilante murders of rapists. I think that if a man rapes you, you and your friends have a right to go to his house and beat him until you feel better or at least avenged, and if he's dead after that he shouldn't have fucking raped anyone and it's his own damn fault.

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Re: Trigger warning: Sexual assault; Stanford victim's letter

Postby AliceElite » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:49 pm

pigspigs76 wrote:
Men may carry the majority of 'rape gene' and more often be in an environment that brings it to bare
but that does not excluded women from being complicit in a crime
it's a cultural and societal issue, that coincidentally spikes alongside war


1) war has nothing to do with this
2) women being complicit in rape doesn't mean that their transgression is on par with the actual rapist
3) 'Rape gene',even if that were a real thing, isn't any kind of excuse for hurting someone. Period. Full stop. I'm genetically predisposed to alcoholism but if I become an alcoholic and hit someone with my car i'm still going to jail, and I deserve to. Rape gene is no excuse, and the only reason that men are in environments that bring that out into the open is because you create those environments.
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Re: Trigger warning: Sexual assault; Stanford victim's letter

Postby cerrodepedro » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:00 pm

In Ninja we like to live in the world of current relevance, frankly, and avoid "big picture" generalizations without qualified specificity. In other words, awesome, let's make an intellectually intuitive observation that is also a generalization, but then also let's qualify that with reason that has a specific bearing on real-world events. I'm in a playful mood here, so my question is, if war is mostly to blame for rape culture, what specifically are anti-war movements doing to reduce instances of rape, cut victim blaming, teach people (especially children) that women's bodies are not public property, and address the fact that most sexual assault occurs with a perp that is close to the survivor in some way, especially within family units?

Because the general "lots of rape happens because the world is violent and the world is violent because of war" is a fun thing to talk about but based on that line of thinking, if we follow it logically, where does that leave us? Why does rape still occur in large numbers in politically stable regions? If you're positing that most of it is done at the hands of soldiers, that goes in counter to just about every reasonable metric taken on the matter of sexual assault.
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Re: Trigger warning: Sexual assault; Stanford victim's letter

Postby AliceElite » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:14 pm

If you're gonna say war is the main reason for rape culture I want SOURCES.

Being complicit in a crime is not the same as performing the crime, and women who are complicit in their husband's crimes are OFTEN complicit out of fear or self-defense.

I will reiterate that: Rape gene is no excuse, and the only reason that men are in environments that bring that out into the open is because you create those environments.
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Re: Trigger warning: Sexual assault; Stanford victim's letter

Postby cerrodepedro » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:55 pm

What exactly are you personally doing to make your world a safer place for those who are more likely to face sexual violence? Stop invalidating others' experiences, including those of Ninjas who have a fuck ton of a lot more clout than you do. Rape is alive and well in EVERY environment. Political and economic instability certainly contribute to it. But you're being fucking tone deaf. And you have 31 posts. So unless you want to be perceived as a spammer and a troll, engage in here properly (because your analysis is half-assed), and answer the question: What are you personally doing to make it less likely for the vulnerable people in your life to be sexually assaulted, raped, or otherwise victimized?
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Re: Trigger warning: Sexual assault; Stanford victim's letter

Postby Feydakin » Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:42 pm

I see a lot of citational links and quotes Pigs, but do you have any more personal thoughts on this that speaks to a little more personal experience or at least actual, real world opinions? What about directly debating the better counter arguments in this thread? Not personally attacking you but it's a little lazy to just cite websites and copypasta instead of type actual words... ;)
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