Cultural Appropriation

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Cultural Appropriation

Postby NaranjaRa » Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:05 am

[11/1/16, 10:04:09 PM] Candee: http://apihtawikosisan.com/hall-of-sham ... cribe-blog
[11/1/16, 10:04:24 PM] Candee: this is so good - the comments are especially amazing.
[11/1/16, 10:05:29 PM] Candee: she seems like one of us
[11/1/16, 10:06:11 PM] Candee: side note - why do i read comments

An Open Letter to Non-Natives in Headdresses

I see you are confused about what constitutes cultural appropriation. I would like to provide you with resources and information on the subject so that you can better understand what our concerns are. I would also like to provide you with this stellar guide from Simon Fraser University called “Think Before You Appropriate“.

However, I also want you to have a brief summary of some of the more salient points so that you do not assume you are merely being called a racist, and so that I do not become frustrated with your defensive refusal to discuss the topic on those grounds.

If at all possible, I’d like you to read the statements on this BINGO card. If any of those have started whirling through your head, please lock them in a box while you read this article. They tend to interfere with the ability to have a respectful conversation.

RESTRICTED SYMBOLS

Some items are restricted items in specific cultures. Examples from Canada and the United States would be: military medals, Bachelor degrees (the actual parchment), and certain awards representing achievement in literary, musical or other fields.

These items cannot be legitimately possessed or imitated by just anyone, as they represent achievements earned according to a specific criteria.

Yes, some people will mock these symbols. However in order to do this, they have to understand what the symbols represent, and then purposefully desecrate or alter them in order to make a statement. They cannot then claim to be honouring the symbol.

Some people will pretend to have earned these symbols, but there can be serious sanctions within a culture for doing this. For example, someone claiming to have earned a medical degree (using a fake parchment) can face criminal charges, because that ‘symbol’ gives them access to a specialised and restricted profession.

UNRESTRICTED SYMBOLS/ITEMS

Other items are non-restricted. Flags, most clothing, food etc. Accessing these things does not signal that you have reached some special achievement, and you are generally free to use these.

If you do not use these items to mock, denigrate or perpetuate stereotypes about other people, then you can legitimately claim to be honouring those items.

HEADDRESSES IN NATIVE CULTURES

For the most part, headdresses are restricted items. In particular, the headdress worn by most non-natives imitate those worn by various Plains nations. These headdresses are further restricted within the cultures to men who have done certain things to earn them. It is very rare for women in Plains cultures to wear these headdresses, and their ability to do so is again quite restricted.

So unless you are a native male from a Plains nation who has earned a headdress, or you have been given permission to wear one (sort of like being presented with an honorary degree), then you will have a very difficult time making a case for how wearing one is anything other than disrespectful, now that you know these things. If you choose to be disrespectful, please do not be surprised when people are offended… regardless of why you think you are entitled to do this.

Even if you have ‘native friends’ or are part native yourself, individual choices to “not be offended” do not Drumpf our collective rights as peoples to define our symbols.

TRY REAL CELEBRATION INSTEAD OF APPROPRIATION

It is okay to find our stuff beautiful, because it is. It is okay to admire our cultures. However I think it is reasonable to ask that if you admire a culture, you learn more about it. Particularly when the details are so much more fascinating than say, out-dated stereotypes of Pan-Indian culture.

You do not have to be an expert on our cultures to access aspects of them. If you aren’t sure about whether something is restricted or not, please ask someone who is from that culture. If people from within that culture tell you that what you are doing is disrespectful, dismissing their concerns because you just don’t agree, is not indicative of admiration.

If you really, really want to wear beaded moccasins or mukluks or buy beautiful native art, then please do! There are legitimate and unrestricted items crafted and sold by aboriginal peoples that we would be more than happy to see you with. Then all the nasty disrespectful stereotyping and denigration of restricted symbols can be avoided, while still allowing you to be decked out in beautiful native-created fashion.

If you are an artist who just loves working with aboriginal images, then please try to ensure your work is authentic and does not incorporate restricted symbols (or perpetuate stereotypes). For example, painting a non-native woman in a Plains culture warbonnet is just as disrespectful as wearing one of these headdresses in real life. Painting a picture from an archival or modern photo of a real native person in a warbonnet, or in regalia, or in ‘street’ clothes is pretty much fine. Acknowledging from which specific nation the images you are using come from is even better. “Native American” or “Indian” is such a vague label.

MIYO-WÎCÊHTOWIN, LIVING TOGETHER IN HARMONY

It’s okay to make mistakes. Maybe you had no idea about any of this stuff. The classiest thing you can do is admit you didn’t know, and maybe even apologise if you find you were doing something disrespectful. A simple acknowledgement of the situation is pure gold, in my opinion. It diffuses tension and makes people feel that they have been heard, respected, and understood.

If you make this kind of acknowledgement conditional on people informing you of these things ‘nicely’ however, that is problematic. The fact is, this issue does get people very upset. It’s okay to get heated about it too on your end and maybe bad words fly back and forth. My hope is that once you cool down, you will accept that you are not being asked to do something unreasonable.

Remember that BINGO card above? It demonstrates how not to go about the issue. You and I both know this issue is not the end of the world. But it is an obstacle on the path to mutual respect and understanding.

Thanks for listening.

êkosi


(check out the actual article for important resources and links)
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Postby ink » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:24 pm

excellent and informative thread.. i am actually guilty of one of these infractions via ignorance in regards to a past commission. so i learned something new today.. word!

knowledge. git u some!
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Postby Brewtality » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:23 am

An interesting article there. There's definitely something to the idea of cultural appropriation and how it can negatively impact different social/cultural groups. We just have to be careful not to run too far with the cultural appropriation ball because then you end up with shit like I saw this year where there were people complaining about others going out in ninja costumes for Halloween.
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Postby Feydakin » Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:43 pm

"Cultural Appropriation"... I'm sorry but whatever legitimacy that term had has been destroyed by it being appropriated by SJWs and applying it to literally everything and anything that might even vaguely represent a particular culture, whether or not someone intended to disrespect that culture. It makes people balk when there is some actual disrespect to a culture happening...
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Postby ink » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:36 pm

unfortunate but true..

it could just be in an age of information which is pulled up at a moments notice, isnt fully acquired, leaving origin and historical context untouched. this can also be the result of ignorance.
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Postby NaranjaRa » Wed Nov 09, 2016 2:06 am

i agree the term is being tainted...people are just generally dumb nowadays.

i think something like wearing a Native head-dress as the article discusses is definitely a GOOD example of what not to do. should especially be tread lightly when it comes to items of extreme spiritual significance.

but things like Miley Cyrus wearing a grill...that's where i think the outcries go too far.

and then someone will likely educate me on why this is wrong...???
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Postby Charmosa » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:05 am

NaranjaRa wrote:[11/1/16, 10:04:09 PM] Candee: http://apihtawikosisan.com/hall-of-sham ... cribe-blog
[11/1/16, 10:04:24 PM] Candee: this is so good - the comments are especially amazing.
[11/1/16, 10:05:29 PM] Candee: she seems like one of us
[11/1/16, 10:06:11 PM] Candee: side note - why do i read comments

An Open Letter to Non-Natives in Headdresses

I see you are confused about what constitutes cultural appropriation. I would like to provide you with resources and information on the subject so that you can better understand what our concerns are. I would also like to provide you with this stellar guide from Simon Fraser University called “Think Before You Appropriate“.

However, I also want you to have a brief summary of some of the more salient points so that you do not assume you are merely being called a racist, and so that I do not become frustrated with your defensive refusal to discuss the topic on those grounds.

If at all possible, I’d like you to read the statements on this BINGO card. If any of those have started whirling through your head, please lock them in a box while you read this article. They tend to interfere with the ability to have a respectful conversation.

RESTRICTED SYMBOLS

Some items are restricted items in specific cultures. Examples from Canada and the United States would be: military medals, Bachelor degrees (the actual parchment), and certain awards representing achievement in literary, musical or other fields.

These items cannot be legitimately possessed or imitated by just anyone, as they represent achievements earned according to a specific criteria.

Yes, some people will mock these symbols. However in order to do this, they have to understand what the symbols represent, and then purposefully desecrate or alter them in order to make a statement. They cannot then claim to be honouring the symbol.

Some people will pretend to have earned these symbols, but there can be serious sanctions within a culture for doing this. For example, someone claiming to have earned a medical degree (using a fake parchment) can face criminal charges, because that ‘symbol’ gives them access to a specialised and restricted profession.

UNRESTRICTED SYMBOLS/ITEMS

Other items are non-restricted. Flags, most clothing, food etc. Accessing these things does not signal that you have reached some special achievement, and you are generally free to use these.

If you do not use these items to mock, denigrate or perpetuate stereotypes about other people, then you can legitimately claim to be honouring those items.

HEADDRESSES IN NATIVE CULTURES

For the most part, headdresses are restricted items. In particular, the headdress worn by most non-natives imitate those worn by various Plains nations. These headdresses are further restricted within the cultures to men who have done certain things to earn them. It is very rare for women in Plains cultures to wear these headdresses, and their ability to do so is again quite restricted.

So unless you are a native male from a Plains nation who has earned a headdress, or you have been given permission to wear one (sort of like being presented with an honorary degree), then you will have a very difficult time making a case for how wearing one is anything other than disrespectful, now that you know these things. If you choose to be disrespectful, please do not be surprised when people are offended… regardless of why you think you are entitled to do this.

Even if you have ‘native friends’ or are part native yourself, individual choices to “not be offended” do not Drumpf our collective rights as peoples to define our symbols.

TRY REAL CELEBRATION INSTEAD OF APPROPRIATION

It is okay to find our stuff beautiful, because it is. It is okay to admire our cultures. However I think it is reasonable to ask that if you admire a culture, you learn more about it. Particularly when the details are so much more fascinating than say, out-dated stereotypes of Pan-Indian culture.

You do not have to be an expert on our cultures to access aspects of them. If you aren’t sure about whether something is restricted or not, please ask someone who is from that culture. If people from within that culture tell you that what you are doing is disrespectful, dismissing their concerns because you just don’t agree, is not indicative of admiration.

If you really, really want to wear beaded moccasins or mukluks or buy beautiful native art, then please do! There are legitimate and unrestricted items crafted and sold by aboriginal peoples that we would be more than happy to see you with. Then all the nasty disrespectful stereotyping and denigration of restricted symbols can be avoided, while still allowing you to be decked out in beautiful native-created fashion.

If you are an artist who just loves working with aboriginal images, then please try to ensure your work is authentic and does not incorporate restricted symbols (or perpetuate stereotypes). For example, painting a non-native woman in a Plains culture warbonnet is just as disrespectful as wearing one of these headdresses in real life. Painting a picture from an archival or modern photo of a real native person in a warbonnet, or in regalia, or in ‘street’ clothes is pretty much fine. Acknowledging from which specific nation the images you are using come from is even better. “Native American” or “Indian” is such a vague label.

MIYO-WÎCÊHTOWIN, LIVING TOGETHER IN HARMONY

It’s okay to make mistakes. Maybe you had no idea about any of this stuff. The classiest thing you can do is admit you didn’t know, and maybe even apologise if you find you were doing something disrespectful. A simple acknowledgement of the situation is pure gold, in my opinion. It diffuses tension and makes people feel that they have been heard, respected, and understood.

If you make this kind of acknowledgement conditional on people informing you of these things ‘nicely’ however, that is problematic. The fact is, this issue does get people very upset. It’s okay to get heated about it too on your end and maybe bad words fly back and forth. My hope is that once you cool down, you will accept that you are not being asked to do something unreasonable.

Remember that BINGO card above? It demonstrates how not to go about the issue. You and I both know this issue is not the end of the world. But it is an obstacle on the path to mutual respect and understanding.

Thanks for listening.

êkosi


(check out the actual article for important resources and links)


Cultural appropriation is something that people do when they are
A. racist/xenophobic/etc. knowingly or subconsciously (their belief that X is actually lesser will manifest AKA "Your covert racism is showing!") or
B. not socialized to understand boundaries very well.

I'm convinced that the reason why this becomes a heated debate at all is that the types of people who do a poor job of reading others' boundaries in one on one situations (we've all met people that seriously can't read your what-the-fuck-are-you-doing-we-only-just-met-I-don't-know-you look on your face) also do it when it comes to groups of people. Cultural appropriation feels kind of like a Dude! No! Cringe-y embarrassing moment when someone is taking this sort of familiarity with a culture they aren't familiar with. We're all faces in our hands like No! Stop! And they're like What? Why are you being so weird? Uh, no dude, you're the weirdo why can't you sense this is not ok.

For example: when you are close friends with someone, (depending on your sense of humor, of course) you can get away with all sorts of shit. You can pick on their appearance, race, face, hair, accent, culture and they'll laugh and dish it right back. Just brutal shit, shit you would absolutely freak the fuck out if other people said it. But when you are that familiar with each other it's ok. It's all about reading social cues (admittedly hard for some and complicated for everyone at times). We can usually read when something is ok. If you're not sure, don't do it.

So if a kid dresses up as a doctor on halloween and has a fake medical diploma (restricted item!) we think it's fine (and it is!). Others see this as the same as kids putting on headdresses and doing that indian wah-wah-wah sound with their hand and their mouth. A cutesy harmless kid thing. But context is everything and respect is important. It is granted by the real doctor with the real medical degree that the kid dressed up as him/her on halloween is in some way paying respect to the profession and identity of Doctor. But "Indians" are not like Doctors in our society. It's not granted by the real tribes that the kid in the headdress even understands any part of the culture s/he's dressing up as. If Doctors were so rare that most people didn't know what a stethoscope was for, had been killed almost to extinction, and the only representation of them on TV were as mystics who GIVE people cancer. Well... Doctor costumes might be more controversial. However if a kid DID really love Native American culture and nerds the fuck out making a costume, s/he's gonna know what's ok and not ok to wear if they've done the research on the tribe. Inoffensive cultural appropriation! Woo! #itcanbedone

It's like this: If you come up on a couple people talking and want to join the conversation, but you don't know much about the topic, it is rude to interrupt and speak with authority on the subject. Doubly so if you then become confrontational or dismissive when they call you out on not knowing what you're talking about. The polite thing to do is to listen and wait until you have something to add. If that doesn't happen, don't talk.

Hope this has been a helpful addition to the original article you posted! It is a good guideline. I just also wanted to point out that I don't think most of the people who criticize this as being overly sensitive or SJW-y or whatevs are racists. It IS a matter that requires sensitivity. For some, it's the same amount of sensitivity they always operate in, for others it may seem like asking too much. We're never all going to be the same level of sensitive. There's plenty of people who don't feel one way or the other about these things, especially if it doesn't affect them, and may become annoyed if they feel expected to join in on the matter lest they be labeled racist. Let's not be quite so black and white. As long as you aren't doing any of the cultural appropriating, you don't have to pick a side and make it your fight if you really don't give a fuck.
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Postby NaranjaRa » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:18 am

Charmosa that's a great explanation...especially this part:

Charmosa wrote:So if a kid dresses up as a doctor on halloween and has a fake medical diploma (restricted item!) we think it's fine (and it is!). Others see this as the same as kids putting on headdresses and doing that indian wah-wah-wah sound with their hand and their mouth. A cutesy harmless kid thing. But context is everything and respect is important. It is granted by the real doctor with the real medical degree that the kid dressed up as him/her on halloween is in some way paying respect to the profession and identity of Doctor. But "Indians" are not like Doctors in our society. It's not granted by the real tribes that the kid in the headdress even understands any part of the culture s/he's dressing up as. If Doctors were so rare that most people didn't know what a stethoscope was for, had been killed almost to extinction, and the only representation of them on TV were as mystics who GIVE people cancer. Well... Doctor costumes might be more controversial. However if a kid DID really love Native American culture and nerds the fuck out making a costume, s/he's gonna know what's ok and not ok to wear if they've done the research on the tribe. Inoffensive cultural appropriation! Woo! #itcanbedone


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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Postby Brewtality » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:44 pm

Some interesting points Charmosa but how do you expand that beyond the scope of the immigrant American vs. Native American experience? I would say that with my personal sense of morality, it not really cool for members of a conquering group to be making fun or making light of the people it systematically displaced, murdered and subjugated. That seems sensible enough to me... up to a point.

Is dressing up as a Catholic priest an example of uncool cultural appropriation because you are wearing the adornments of a group of people who have to work and study in order to wear those within their organisation? Or does it only become cultural appropriation when it has something to do with non-white people? Because really, we could end up going down a very deep rabbit hole with this shit couldn't we? Arguments over white people wearing dreadlocks (absolutely fine) or people twerking (not cool but not for cultural appropriation reasons) for example. Yes, there are items or rituals that are very important to certain cultures but at what point do they become the only people with any claim over those items? When I lived in the Middle East, I used to wear a Thawb all the time and sometimes I'd team it with a keffiyeh. People loved it and I stayed cool in the heat. Now, if I went home and put the same outfit on, I'd probably get a load of shit about how I was being a racist arsehole due to me culturally appropriating the traditional dress of another culture. The only thing that's changed is the people seeing me in the clothes and that brings me to a problem I have with the policing of cultural appropriation and a lot of the 'SJW' culture that's been growing in recent years: it's mainly white people getting offended on behalf of people from other cultures. And that is something which I find extremely patronising.
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Postby NaranjaRa » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:34 am

good points too.

see this is why it gets tricky.

i mean, does ignorance always = disrespect? or is it just ignorance??
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Postby Charmosa » Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:50 am

Brewtality wrote:Some interesting points Charmosa but how do you expand that beyond the scope of the immigrant American vs. Native American experience? I would say that with my personal sense of morality, it not really cool for members of a conquering group to be making fun or making light of the people it systematically displaced, murdered and subjugated. That seems sensible enough to me... up to a point.

Is dressing up as a Catholic priest an example of uncool cultural appropriation because you are wearing the adornments of a group of people who have to work and study in order to wear those within their organisation? Or does it only become cultural appropriation when it has something to do with non-white people? Because really, we could end up going down a very deep rabbit hole with this shit couldn't we? Arguments over white people wearing dreadlocks (absolutely fine) or people twerking (not cool but not for cultural appropriation reasons) for example. Yes, there are items or rituals that are very important to certain cultures but at what point do they become the only people with any claim over those items? When I lived in the Middle East, I used to wear a Thawb all the time and sometimes I'd team it with a keffiyeh. People loved it and I stayed cool in the heat. Now, if I went home and put the same outfit on, I'd probably get a load of shit about how I was being a racist arsehole due to me culturally appropriating the traditional dress of another culture. The only thing that's changed is the people seeing me in the clothes and that brings me to a problem I have with the policing of cultural appropriation and a lot of the 'SJW' culture that's been growing in recent years: it's mainly white people getting offended on behalf of people from other cultures. And that is something which I find extremely patronising.


Again, this was just a thought that popped into my head, I have no data but it rings a certain truth to me. It seems that since things like society and culture are entirely based on social interactions that we as our own society can control what is or isn't ok in our culture. So after you interact with enough people you can vibe on what will pass and what will get you in trouble.

I don't believe that "SJW" culture is mainly white people. You may be mainly hearing those voices based on the places you are hearing them or the media you choose to consume or the people you tend to listen to. Actually based on the numbers, most Drumpf voters were white and most white people voted for Drumpf. Drumpf is about as anti SJW you can get. Based on the people I pay attention to, my perspective is that SJWs are mostly brown skinned people demanding respect and equality and then white people who listen and pass on their messages and add their own. There may be some annoying as fuck people part of any movement, but the movement in general is a good one.

I understand fears of our first amendment becoming compromised somewhere down the line (even more than it is already). I don't see protesting and fighting for social justice as a threat to free speech. It's a way to exercise it. There are those who ask for people not to use hate speech and all sorts of terms that can upset people. But again, context is everything. In today's society. Fuck, in yesterday's society even you could get your ass fired for saying n****r at work. But comedians and rappers get away with it when the context isn't rooted in hate. I don't think we as a society will allow the rules to be rewritten to this new world order of strict censorship--fuck context. I think we'll do better than that. I say, go ahead and speak back against any SJW who you disagree with and criticize what you want! I'm not gonna ask for censorship. I want accountability. Because people can talk all day about what is or isn't right, but who's actively discriminating? Who is exploiting, degrading, harassing, and killing others? Because those are the people, regardless of race or culture, who needs to be held responsible. That's what needs to change more than the words we use. Language is an ever changing thing, we can't stop language from evolving, we just get to choose if we're the grump with the cane shaking it at all the kids these days, or the person still young at heart out there living and mixing amongst all the generations. Then we have to make peace with our choice and complain at each other about everyone else's choices. :tongue:
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Postby Brewtality » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:02 pm

Charmosa wrote:I don't believe that "SJW" culture is mainly white people. You may be mainly hearing those voices based on the places you are hearing them or the media you choose to consume or the people you tend to listen to.


Well most of my experiences with this kind of thing have been online in various places. I have a pretty broad spectrum of websites I like to go on just to see what different kinds of people are saying but in my experience, it's generally been white people fighting the fight. The people I have encountered in person who have espoused 'SJW' views have also been white by a large majority. Indeed, that is only my own experience but that's what I've got to work from.

Actually based on the numbers, most Drumpf voters were white and most white people voted for Drumpf. Drumpf is about as anti SJW you can get. Based on the people I pay attention to, my perspective is that SJWs are mostly brown skinned people demanding respect and equality and then white people who listen and pass on their messages and add their own. There may be some annoying as fuck people part of any movement, but the movement in general is a good one.


Most white people who voted voted for Drumpf anyway. I don't think anyone is complaining about people of different races pushing for equality. I don't think that Black Lives Matter, for example, is part of what people would consider to be 'SJW culture'. I think the problems a lot of people have with SJW stuff is people throwing around terms like 'microagression' or have people constantly scouring any kind of statement for signs of racism, sexism, gender bias, ableism or any other kind of perceived bias or believe that censorship is fine as long as it's against something you don't like (e.g. banning speakers from universities for bullshit reaosns like 'they make me feel unsafe'. The kind of person who shouts at somebody in the street for having dreadlocks or tells an Uber driver to remove a Hawaiian dancing doll from their dashboard because it's apparently massively offensive. I think in the minds of most people who care there is a difference between people who care about social justice and 'Social Justice Warriors'.

Please don't misunderstand my position. I'm a VERY socially liberal person and in the last election I was able to vote in, I voted for a coalition of socialist parties. I spent 3 years living in a country governed by Sharia law as interpreted by Wahabi Islam (the same branch that al-Qaeda espouses) and I am currently in my third year of living in East Africa. I just don't necessarily think that I should have to watch myself constantly in case I assume someone's gender or don't ask someone which pronouns they prefer. Fuck anybody who isn't for social justice but also fuck anybody who tries to tell me I'm a bad person for not conforming to their own personal view of what is right and wrong.

Buuuuuuut anyway! This was about 'cultural appropriation' and it seems I/we have taken this off-topic slightly. Samahani.
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Postby Charmosa » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:36 pm

I think the problems a lot of people have with SJW stuff is people throwing around terms like 'microagression' or have people constantly scouring any kind of statement for signs of racism, sexism, gender bias, ableism or any other kind of perceived bias or believe that censorship is fine as long as it's against something you don't like (e.g. banning speakers from universities for bullshit reaosns like 'they make me feel unsafe'. The kind of person who shouts at somebody in the street for having dreadlocks or tells an Uber driver to remove a Hawaiian dancing doll from their dashboard because it's apparently massively offensive. I think in the minds of most people who care there is a difference between people who care about social justice and 'Social Justice Warriors'.

Ha! It's all good. I guess I don't know what people mean exactly when people refer to SJW, because some of the more bigoted people apply it broadly to anyone fighting for justice or equality and some people who are totally on the same side of that fight are complaining about extremists. Personally I don't feel like we will be forced to cater to the extremists on the social justice side, not in any meaningful way. They can tell the cabbie the hawaiian doll is offensive, the cabbie can tell them they're full of shit. One person exercises their right to free speech, and so does the other. Life goes on. It's the bigots with the power that are really the problem, or bigots en masse that elect other bigots to power. Because what happens is when everyone collectively rolls their eyes and complains about extremists (radical feminism, extreme SJWs, etc) they can say amongst themselves "You give an inch, they take a mile" and decide to not give into the broader base of these groups fighting for equality for fear that instead of maintaining power, or sharing it equally even, they will instead be handing it over to extremists who make unfair demands unto them.
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Re: Cultural Appropriation

Postby cerrodepedro » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:31 pm

Charmosa wrote:...Personally I don't feel like we will be forced to cater to the extremists on the social justice side, not in any meaningful way. They can tell the cabbie the hawaiian doll is offensive, the cabbie can tell them they're full of shit. One person exercises their right to free speech, and so does the other. Life goes on. It's the bigots with the power that are really the problem, or bigots en masse that elect other bigots to power. Because what happens is when everyone collectively rolls their eyes and complains about extremists (radical feminism, extreme SJWs, etc) they can say amongst themselves "You give an inch, they take a mile" and decide to not give into the broader base of these groups fighting for equality for fear that instead of maintaining power, or sharing it equally even, they will instead be handing it over to extremists who make unfair demands unto them.


You speak calmly and clearly and succinctly to explain something that I think is too often neglected as a point of view.
Once was lost and now am lost; was blind but now I smoke
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