Question Regarding American Income Tax & Healthcare

Stay informed with these less controversial but just as important news articles. If topics prove contentious they will be moved the debate area.
User avatar
ghostdogg
Rewind. Spit. Scratch. See Heaven.
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:41 pm

Question Regarding American Income Tax & Healthcare

Postby ghostdogg » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:44 pm

Dear fellow American ninjas,

I heard something that took me by surprise. Allegedly, if you are an American who can't qualify for medical coverage, you have to pay fees on your income tax?? What the hell is that?

The person who told me this information didn't know if this was a new tax that the Drumpf administration put in or if it was always there but Drumpf cancelled ObamaCare - which essentially made sure that you could always qualify. Is there any truth to any of this??

Personally, I don't see the point in taxing someone who's clearly in need of medical coverage but can't qualify for one. Do you?
User avatar
NaranjaRa
Nerd lvl: SUPA DUPA
Posts: 2501
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:53 am
Location: in the grove
Contact:

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax

Postby NaranjaRa » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:47 pm

yeah i'm not sure what they're talking about, really....not sure if that person was just repeating misinformation, or confused, or a combination of both.

without getting into too much detail, the main thing is a "mandate" that came when Obamacare was implemented...the way it's able to work and give 20 million+ people insurance who previously either couldn't afford it or couldn't qualify is the idea that *everyone* needs to buy it - not just old/sick folks - in order to bring costs down and cover more people. therefore, if you have enough income to technically be able to buy health insurance but choose not to, you face a tax penalty for not being covered. this is the major controversy regarding Obamacare.

https://www.healthcare.gov/fees/fee-for ... g-covered/
User avatar
Feydakin
Blissfully Oblivious
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Right Here
Contact:

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax

Postby Feydakin » Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:08 pm

Yeah they were probably confused with Obamacare's mandated tax penalty for not buying into the system... The new plan doesn't have anything like that thankfully. ;)
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P. Lovecraft, "From Beyond"Image
ImageImage
User avatar
NaranjaRa
Nerd lvl: SUPA DUPA
Posts: 2501
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:53 am
Location: in the grove
Contact:

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax

Postby NaranjaRa » Fri Jun 09, 2017 3:47 am

...but all those folks will lose their care (including yours truly), and prices will rise for everyone (especially the elderly and ill)..since everyone paying is the only way it works...

so, tit for tat ;-)
User avatar
ghostdogg
Rewind. Spit. Scratch. See Heaven.
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:41 pm

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax

Postby ghostdogg » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:17 am

I get what you're saying and I suspected as much but what got me was that the tax isn't necessarily for people who could afford it.

Also that if a person can't qualify - for whatever existing medical reasons - then would they be forced to pay that tax? That doesn't seem reasonable to me...
User avatar
NaranjaRa
Nerd lvl: SUPA DUPA
Posts: 2501
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:53 am
Location: in the grove
Contact:

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax

Postby NaranjaRa » Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:34 am

ghostdogg wrote:I get what you're saying and I suspected as much but what got me was that the tax isn't necessarily for people who could afford it.

Also that if a person can't qualify - for whatever existing medical reasons - then would they be forced to pay that tax? That doesn't seem reasonable to me...

no with Obamacare there was no issue with not being able to qualify for medical coverage due to say, pre-existing conditions. that was one of the huge saving grace's of the plan. everyone CAN get insurance.

what sucks is that they sort of decided a certain income that says to *them*, "hey, you make enough to buy health coverage, so if you don't, we're going to hit you a little on your taxes as a penalty and try to motivate you to actually get some coverage so this whole shebang works for everyone."

problem is what things look like as numbers on paper do not always work in reality, and a lot of people found themselves in "no-man's land" of being slightly too poor to buy coverage, but had just enough income that they'd still get hit with the tax penalty.


i never agreed with that entirely, either, and believed it needed to be fine-tuned a bit more and fixed. not just thrown out altogether. again, everyone paying in is how it works.

but *sigh* politics....ya know?

because someone like me, who has basically NO income, disabled (waiting on a case to finish) with pre-existing conditions could not get coverage until the ACA (Obamacare). my medications alone were more than $2,000 a month. so i was seriously suffering, life went downhill fast, etc etc...because no insurance company would touch me. OR if they did accept me, the cost of the plan was so insanely expensive (note: i'm a woman, too, so they were allowed to charge females more than males at the time as well) there was no way on earth i could get it.

thing is, until we have universal coverage, there is ALWAYS going to be people who fall through the cracks. always. every other civilized nation on earth seems to understand it's not about "a bunch of moochers wanting everything handed to them" or "taking away your freedoms by forcing such & such on you" (since i never hear being forced to have car insurance to drive is taking away anyone's freedom) and instead about keeping the population somewhat healthy so everyone can become productive members contributing to society and having the chance to raise themselves up in life.
User avatar
ghostdogg
Rewind. Spit. Scratch. See Heaven.
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:41 pm

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax

Postby ghostdogg » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:07 pm

Thanks for clarifying that. But when you said they charge females more than males... Well, that just brings up a whole nother question entirely.

In regards to your driving analogy, here in Canada driving is considered a privilege - not a right - so they can (and do) force us to get insurance to be able to drive. To me... That's way different than the right to medical coverage but I digress.

Thanks for info!!!
User avatar
Feydakin
Blissfully Oblivious
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Right Here
Contact:

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax

Postby Feydakin » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:30 am

If the free market system were allowed to work with little to no regulation, and no state borders most importantly, health insurance would be so damned cheap and so high quality that it wouldn't matter. Competition breeds lower prices and higher quality. It would also allow the subsidized and free insurance to work a lot better because it wouldn't have so much waste and unnecessary burdens from too many people using the system. There are a ton of free market ideas state to state that have worked amazingly well. I just don't think the government needs to have its hand in this particular cookie jar to the extent that Obamacare OR the ACA wants it to be. Handle the existing programs and let the free market take care of the rest. It's worked on the micro level in many states and counties, and really CAN work anywhere if it's allowed to. We're talking pennies on the dollar in comparative costs, especially for things like prescription medicines.

Also, you absolutely cannot compare the medical insurance systems of a comparatively small population country with a huge country like the USA with nearly 325 million people... it does NOT scale well contrary to what some would lead you to believe... it actually has the opposite effect; it amplifies the problems that eventually crash those types of systems. Hence the clusterfuck that Obamacare turned out to be. There are literally tons of counties and even whole states with one company or NO coverage at all now.
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P. Lovecraft, "From Beyond"Image
ImageImage
User avatar
ghostdogg
Rewind. Spit. Scratch. See Heaven.
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:41 pm

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax

Postby ghostdogg » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:53 pm

very good points! Thanks, Feyd!
User avatar
NaranjaRa
Nerd lvl: SUPA DUPA
Posts: 2501
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:53 am
Location: in the grove
Contact:

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax

Postby NaranjaRa » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:59 pm

ghostdogg wrote:Thanks for clarifying that. But when you said they charge females more than males... Well, that just brings up a whole nother question entirely.

In regards to your driving analogy, here in Canada driving is considered a privilege - not a right - so they can (and do) force us to get insurance to be able to drive. To me... That's way different than the right to medical coverage but I digress.

Thanks for info!!!

that's pretty much the debate, GD - whether or not we should see healthcare as a right or a privilege in the US. driving is a privilege. but the government still makes sure we have roads to drive on. so even though i'm one of the ones who believes everyone has the right to have some form of healthcare, i think even if you don't, the government should still ensure we all have the opportunity to lead healthy, productive lives in this country.

to me it just makes sense...why wouldn't we want sick, impoverished people to get better?! they might be able to then get off of all their other assistance programs like welfare and/or disability. boom. cost savings for all tax payers. those people then become productive members of society. boom, more money into the economy. there are brilliant minds out there who are unable to help better all kinds of different fields, perhaps the entire world, but who are also stuck without proper healthcare so they're not able to share that wisdom with the rest of us.

"life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" isn't really possible if you're sick.

not to mention, it's just the decent thing to do. /atf

i would also love it if little things such as, being able to cross state lines in the insurance realm would get changed. but i think leaving it totally up to a free market is just putting our fate right back into the hands of the insurance companies and the greedy practices that got us into this mess. where is the motivation to also make sure drug corporations and hospitals lower their costs as well? we keep applying these shitty band-aids without going further down the line to the services and providers themselves who have been allowed to run amok with price-gouging in the first place. of course insurance is going to be expensive when an emergency room bill tries to charge crap like $300 for an ice pack (facetious example there, yes, but still). it's also going to be expensive if only sick people buy it.

that's the part that Obamacare/the ACA attempted to band-aid over. it helped a tonnnn of people, yours included. but is also wasn't the best plan...it got watered down a lot and the parts that would have kept the prices from going up for a lot of folks in turn were stripped out before it passed. so we ended up with another somewhat shitty compromise that did a lot of good, but hurt others and pissed off a lot of small businesses.

hence the battle rages on...
/62
User avatar
ghostdogg
Rewind. Spit. Scratch. See Heaven.
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:41 pm

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax

Postby ghostdogg » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:56 pm

NaranjaRa wrote:to me it just makes sense...why wouldn't we want sick, impoverished people to get better?!

I think you're overall point here is right but I'm confused about the questions you posed after this sentence and flow-of-logic you presented there.

NaranjaRa wrote:they might be able to then get off of all their other assistance programs like welfare and/or disability. boom.


I don't know about this - and that may be due to the fact that we live in diff countries but I don't really think so - the welfare system is designed to keep people in welfare. But again, that's another topic entirely...

NaranjaRa wrote:cost savings for all tax payers. those people then become productive members of society. boom, more money into the economy.


Even if our welfare systems are designed differently, I'm almost 100% certain that neither of our governments will ever implement cost savings for all tax payers - regardless if the first point works or not.

NaranjaRa wrote:there are brilliant minds out there who are unable to help better all kinds of different fields, perhaps the entire world, but who are also stuck without proper healthcare so they're not able to share that wisdom with the rest of us.

"life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" isn't really possible if you're sick.

not to mention, it's just the decent thing to do. /atf


I couldn't agree more with everything said here!! But these next two points are a little contrary...

NaranjaRa wrote:i would also love it if little things such as, being able to cross state lines in the insurance realm would get changed. but i think leaving it totally up to a free market is just putting our fate right back into the hands of the insurance companies and the greedy practices that got us into this mess. where is the motivation to also make sure drug corporations and hospitals lower their costs as well?


Well, as far my understanding goes, that is the motivation... I mean, the purpose of being able to cross state lines is so that the "free, open market" will naturally drive the price down because of competition. Essentially, the point of doing that is so the insurance companies will "naturally" regulate their own prices; as opposed to, having another regulatory system in place to determine price.

NaranjaRa wrote:...expensive when an emergency room bill tries to charge crap like $300 for an ice pack (facetious example there, yes, but still).


When I was a kid, my mom, sister and I went to Florida. My mom's neck gave out suddenly and we went to Emergency. Her bill was $600 USD for a neck brace. :| W.T.F. And that was at least 20 years ago...

NaranjaRa wrote:that's pretty much the debate, GD - whether or not we should see healthcare as a right or a privilege in the US.

hence the battle rages on...
/62


W0rd - but only if we accept the "free market" system and rule-out anything else. Essentially, everyone has to agree that if we never went with the "free market" in the first place, we never would have ever had to paid for any type of medical coverage. Let's (at least) be honest with each other on that before we start a debate on the topic. Honestly, we live a lifestyle that requires and depends on the "free market" - which is considered as "modern civilization" - so to me, the REAL debate is whether or not we should want to live in a "free market society"? If yes, then remove the restrictions between state lines and why stop there? Stop letting individual States govern themselves. But if the American people still want to cling on to this, then how can you agree with the concept of "free market"? To me, it would be natural that these people lean towards a Socialist perspective.

Does that make sense? I killed it with the double-quotes! :lawl:
User avatar
NaranjaRa
Nerd lvl: SUPA DUPA
Posts: 2501
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:53 am
Location: in the grove
Contact:

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax & Healthcare

Postby NaranjaRa » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:42 am

thing is, i don't agree with a totally free market, so....a lot of the objection up there doesn't make any sense to me. unchecked capitalism is a disaster, but we sort of have a part socialist/part capitalist way of life in the US. people really don't usually understand just how very socialist we are here most of the time.

let me go through it again, but i also think the difference in our 2 systems is also a bit at play here in the confusion
User avatar
ghostdogg
Rewind. Spit. Scratch. See Heaven.
Posts: 444
Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:41 pm

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax & Healthcare

Postby ghostdogg » Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:40 pm

I hear you; was just pointing that out in relation to the "real debate" - which to me, is the topic of how we govern ourselves.

I completely agree in a "hybrid system" - I always go with the more Innovative approach - and ultimately think it's the way to go.

I think the way Canada is, every province is in charge of its own healthcare but our "Medicare" is federally mandated; furthermore, each province's healthcare system is recognized anywhere but it's mostly provincial taxes that pay for our hospitals, staff, etc.
User avatar
Feydakin
Blissfully Oblivious
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Right Here
Contact:

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax & Healthcare

Postby Feydakin » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:40 pm

The concept of "checks & balances" exists for a reason. The issue becomes, when one side or the other gets too much power in the system it's hard then for the other side to check them. Also, by "balance" that doesn't mean "equal". I believe that the free market needs far more freedom from government regulation than it currently has in many areas, and it needs more oversight in areas it's currently lacking in. It's weird. I think it's because politicians on the Left benefit from capitalism and big corporations as much as anyone, they will allow things like huge corporate buyouts that stifle competition as long as they get paid off to look the other way. So to think that you can count on the Left to keep an eye on those evil capitalist megacorps is naive at best. At the end of the day, EVERY decision should be based on making life better for the every day citizen, and leaving ultimate power in the hands of the individual over the collective. I truly believe that the way to that end is free market capitalism with only as much governmental oversight as absolutely necessary for them not to get too big and powerful in relation to the People. With regard to insurance for health care, holy shit that's too much power over the people for any one entity to have. That's 17% of the US GDP... that definitely needs oversight, but holy shit do I not trust the government to have total control over that. No fucking way... /ambo
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P. Lovecraft, "From Beyond"Image
ImageImage
User avatar
NaranjaRa
Nerd lvl: SUPA DUPA
Posts: 2501
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:53 am
Location: in the grove
Contact:

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax & Healthcare

Postby NaranjaRa » Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:55 pm

Feydakin wrote:The concept of "checks & balances" exists for a reason. The issue becomes, when one side or the other gets too much power in the system it's hard then for the other side to check them. Also, by "balance" that doesn't mean "equal". I believe that the free market needs far more freedom from government regulation than it currently has in many areas, and it needs more oversight in areas it's currently lacking in. It's weird. I think it's because politicians on the Left benefit from capitalism and big corporations as much as anyone, they will allow things like huge corporate buyouts that stifle competition as long as they get paid off to look the other way. So to think that you can count on the Left to keep an eye on those evil capitalist megacorps is naive at best. At the end of the day, EVERY decision should be based on making life better for the every day citizen, and leaving ultimate power in the hands of the individual over the collective. I truly believe that the way to that end is free market capitalism with only as much governmental oversight as absolutely necessary for them not to get too big and powerful in relation to the People. With regard to insurance for health care, holy shit that's too much power over the people for any one entity to have. That's 17% of the US GDP... that definitely needs oversight, but holy shit do I not trust the government to have total control over that. No fucking way... /ambo

100% agree with you on those first few sentences.

but the tennis ball of low oversight to some oversight, to low, has gone back and forth for decades and not much has been done to make things better for anyone really except for insurance companies. and i tend think running our healthcare system is a helluva lot of power to leave in the hands of the corporations, who have NO checks & balances at ALL...

but the problem we face at the moment is the current GOP replacement plan does NOTHING to actually help the People. even Drumpf called it "mean"! it's ALL about helping companies and businesses. but wait, it's even less about that, and more about just straight helping THE RICH. the amount of money being stripped out of healthcare is - oh funny - the same amount as the tax break being given to the wealthy. i can pull a recent conversation from a guy bragging the other day about how he's going to put his in a Roth IRA while he laughs about all the "poor fuckers" being kicked off of Medicaid - like me - if you'd like. they're literally robbing the funds from sick, poor, elderly and handing it back to the wealthiest percent. it's a dream come true!

so once again, no...the Left...is not....as bad...as the GOP is being right now.
User avatar
Feydakin
Blissfully Oblivious
Posts: 1779
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Right Here
Contact:

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax & Healthcare

Postby Feydakin » Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:14 pm

The current bill (I read it) is shit. It does virtually nothing they promised... AND now they are making more concessions. If they don't deliver on this promise there's going to be a reckoning come 2018, if they didn't already get the message in 2016 with Drumpf being elected. Something needs to be done though, or people WILL die because Obamacare is a fucking disaster.
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P. Lovecraft, "From Beyond"Image
ImageImage
User avatar
NaranjaRa
Nerd lvl: SUPA DUPA
Posts: 2501
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:53 am
Location: in the grove
Contact:

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax & Healthcare

Postby NaranjaRa » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:39 pm

well at least you agree that new one is some true douchebaggery as well.

but now i'm having "death-panel" flashbacks - dude, hyperbole! how are people going to die from Obamacare? are you talking about some kind of continued pricing that rises so high people can't afford health insurance anymore so they straight kill-over? kind of like what was going on before it was even implemented? almost reminds me how i would have most definitely have found a gun and blown my head off due to pain by now if i *hadn't* been able to get it...so where does the scale tip on lives saved vs not? because what they will die from is being kicked OFF of the ACA en-masse if this new bullshit somehow passes in this "party-first" form of government running now.

Obamacare / the ACA has become a growing pain in the ass because the GOP sabotaged it and has allowed it to become this way. once totally in power they even could have already passed some things to fix the more problematic parts of the bill but NOPE. this whole time THEY'VE WANTED IT TO FAIL so they could then sit back and say, "oh look it failed we were right nanny nanny noo noo now we can give reparations to *our* rich friends now". The People never matter in this continued political game, which is again why i think picking sides is a fucking joke. i mean, for fuck sake Obamacare is THEIR FUCKING PLAN. but since it was put out there by a black man in the opposite party, it's been touted to their followers as pure evil from the get-go.
User avatar
Skywalker
I Feel Ya Sista... Not in that way
Posts: 978
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:55 pm
Location: NC

Re: Question Regarding American Income Tax & Healthcare

Postby Skywalker » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:27 pm

The People never matter in this continued political game, which is again why i think picking sides is a fucking joke


This I can agree with. We have never mattered. It is all about giving their biggest tax break to the wealthiest few as possible. It was never about healthcare.

I have read the Senate Version of TrumpCare. What do I not understand is why are they cutting Medicaid? Most of the people on Medicaid are old or kids, adults do not get it as often as much as many think. There are not many single adults on Medicaid unless the state expanded the coverage of the program.

I wonder if they decided to cap Medicaid coverage, what about kids who are medically fragile? They need hundred of thousand if not millions of dollars of medical care. They get it with Medicaid. My own nephew gets his health care with Medicaid.

The other striking thing within the bill is that the government wants all the names and other biographical information about these kids. What do they plan to do with it? Do they plan to make a database, because you know how well the government keeps their data.

Healthcare in this country is a joke. It really is. The Republicans had many, many years to try and come up with a better plan. This was it. What in the fuck were they doing all those years!? While ACA had won in many battles (it helped my dad pay for cancer care). It failed in others, my own price on the marketplace was something that I could not afford. I did not make enough to get help (this is where expanded Medicaid would have been should the state I live in elected for it). So I did not have the 600+ dollars a month nor the 75 dollars each time I needed to see a doctor. While many may think that is not a lot, when you are paid about 1200 a month, you do the math!

There has to be a better way, there really does.
Image

Return to “In The News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest